My doc replied to my long email update about my interactions between T3 and LDN causing Hyperthyroid symptoms as well as her confusing messages which contributed to those overdose symptoms. She merely suggested I try cutting the (very tiny) LDN capsules in half. I told her that I previously considered dividing those very tiny LDN capsules. However, I thought raising my WBC level was more important than controlling thyroid symptoms until I developed daily painful, bleeding hemorrhoids. I also suspected I couldn't evenly divide the LDN capsules and would waste most of the contents by spilling. The T3 tablets seem easier to split, evem though my pill splitter usually divides tablets into 2/3 and 1/3 segments.
For the past 3 days I've taken 2/3 of a T3 tablet (3.3 mcg) each morning and slept well for the past 3 nights after taking the 3mg dose of LDN before bed. I feel comfortably warm and energetic during the day. I slept through the night w/o waking last night. I had softer stools today and yesterday morning (after taking more vitamin C and magnesium for constipation). I treated my bleeding hemorrhoids with 2 sitzbath sessions yesterday. That reduced the hemorrhoids and prevented bleeding today.
As far as improved sleep, I suspect that either my body has adjusted to that LDN dose so that it no longer disturbs my sleep OR I've reduced the T3 dose low enough that I don't get hyperthyroid symptoms during the night OR at least half of my last T4 dose left my system (I last took that 25 mg dose of T4 on 12/3 after 2 days off all thyroid meds,. I have no idea how much the LDN affects the thyroid meds. I could only judge from my symptoms and adjust thyroid supplement accordingly.
If I continue to have regularity problems, I may divide and waste some LDN to take less. Then I may need to increase the T3 dose. However, before I change anything which affects my sleep, I want more nights of solid sleep. I previously tried taking the IAG only in the evening. However, insuffiiciient sleep exacerbated my cold symptoms. So I had to return to 2 daily divided IAG doses to treat cold symptoms. After the past few nights of solid sleep, I now only need an evening dose of IAG and have no cold symptoms during the day. Last night I slept straight through without waking, for the first time since starting the LDN, even after consuming lots of (Truly Decadent) mocha almond fudge (dairy free but not caffeine free) ice cream with dinner.
My doc replied to my email about 2/3 T3 tablet with whole LDN capsule and said that the important thing is to take at least 1.5mg of LDN. Now that I've adjusted to LDN and my cold symptoms FINALLY disappeared, I'll keep the LDN at that initial level to stimulate white blood cell production and more easily fight any future infections. My long history of chronic gastro infections plus chronic colds is linked to low Vitamin D levels, low thyroid levels and ultimately low white blood cells.
I actually feel better today than I have felt in awhile. Instead of dreading Christmas holidays and wanting to only attend a Christmas Eve service (and nothing else), I'm now excitely shopping, baking Christmas cookies and decorating the house, while anticipating get togethers with family and/or friends and other activities with my husband. What a transformation! Although balancing the thyroid dose with LDN was challenging and frustrating at times, I now believe that was well worth the effort!
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I'm about to take LDN and I also have hypothyroidism (and many digestive issues too, as well as leukopenia and many other health issues, ugh). Are you finding that LDN is helping with your hypothyroid and digestive issues (like constipation and digestion) and mood?
What dose did your doc start u at? I'm really small and underweight so I'm a bit nervous to start at 1.5mg... I'm thinking a smaller dose would be better. I'm also really prone to side effects. Did u notice any difficulty with LDN?
Thanks... i'm glad you are finally getting some help with your issues!
-Shelby
Hi Shelby: I doubted whether anyone would be interested in my posts about LDN and thyroid supplements. So I'm glad you found my blog.
My doc started me at 3.0 mg LDN. I think that was a mistake, because I'm also smallish. I weigh about 103 and am 5'3.5". However we were both worried about my leukopenia. My WBCs were 3.2 (3200?) on 9/1/10and then decreased more by 11/8/10 to 3.0 or 3000. That's not terribly low.
However, considering my history of 8 different gastrointestinal infections (5 bacteria, 2 parasites and candida) within the past 4 years plus many treatments along with colds, I can see how I developed leukopenia.
My last gastro infection ended before September. Then I began to experience either the same cold or one cold after another, never recovering. So my white blood cells didn't have a chance to regenerate before I got another infection.
Unless you're significantly smaller than I am, 1.5mg would be fine for you. What dose of thyroid supplements are you taking? Which brand? What digestive issues do you have? Were you ever diagnosed with gluten intolerance or celiac disease (which I have)? Abstaining from gluten can diminish symptoms of and damage from many autoimmune conditions, including Hashimoto's thyroiditis and Grave's Disease.
I'll continue this in another comment ...
Hi Again Shelby:
LDN is DEFINITELY affecting my thyroid, because I need much less supplement to get the same effect. Before I started LDN I was doing well with a 50mcg T4 (Levoxyl) pill in the morning with a 5mcg T3 (generic) pill and another 5mcg T3 pill in late afternoon. Soon after I started taking my 3mg dose of LDN, I began having hyperthyroid symptoms. So I abstained from all thyroid for a couple of days. Then I followed my doc's advice to drop the afternoon T3. I still OD'd. Then I dropped the T4 and still OD'd. Now I'm doing well with just 2/3 of a 5mcg T3 tablet, but may cut that to 1/2 pill if I have hyperthyroid symptoms again.
LDN was never supposed to help with my digestive issues, which are all related to celiac disease. I control those by abstaining from gluten and my 6 other diagnosed delayed reaction (IgG or IgA mediated) food allergies. I also take HCl supplements for digestion and preventing more gastro infections from food born gut bugs. Plus I take daily high dose priobiotics. My gut was doing fine before I added LDN and my thyroid got imbalanced, because LDN decreases autoimmune symptoms. Since my hypothyroid was caused by Hashimoto's (related to celiac), LDN reduced my need for thyroid supps. So I got hyperthyroid symptoms and abstained from thyroid supps to control those symptoms. However, I needed thyroid for regularity (because I'm normally hypo). So I got constipated until I could return to a stable dose of T3, which didn't cause hyper symptoms. So in a way LDN made constipation worse, but only because I was starting and stopping my thyroid to avoid hyper symptoms. I don't think LDN usually affects regularity.
Rather than reducing the LDN dosage, after paying $85 for a 3month supply, I decided to just reduce the thyroid supps. Also the tiny LDN capsules are almost impossible to evenly divide with spilling some of the contents. At that price, I didn't want to waste any.
As far as mood, I'm generally a positive person, despite years of undiagnosed celiac, and 4 years of those gut infections. At times I felt pretty hopeless about every getting well, but I kept searching for answers. Nevertheless, feeling physically well does wonders for my outlook on life. Having energy to do normal activities (without constantly pushing myself) makes me excited about doing even more in the future. I suspect LDN (and arabinogalactin) helped me break my cycle of chronic colds and sinus infections, which increased my energy and sense of well-being. I wouldn't say LDN directly improved my mood. However, I've read that it increases endorphin output, which can make you happier. However, during the first week when I wasn't sleeping well, because LDN exacerbated the effect of my thyroid supplement, I did NOT feel happier. I was really frustrated. My doc probably should have started me on a smaller dose of LDN, but then I'd have to keep changing the dose and paying more $$ for compounded version of LDN, because that usually contains a lactose filler. I'm allergic to all forms of dairy products. So I had a compounding pharmacy prepare my LDN w/o dairy. Hence the high price for my prescription.
WOW! Long reply. Hope I answered all your questions.
Thanks for responding, Sue! Do you mind if I email you? If you can provide your email, I'd appreciate it (I'd love to tell you about my "story" but I don't want it posted on the internet!) :-P
Thanks! I'm thrilled that u are getting answers! Your knowledge and your take-charge attitude with your health is very admirable!
-Shelby
OK, Shelby. You can email me at penguinea@hotmail.com I'd love to hear your story.
Many people tell me that I have a 'take-charge' attitude about my health care. However, after 20-30? years of misdiagnoses for celiac disease and prescriptions for drugs which ultimately worsened my digestion as much as celiac disease, I learned to limit my visits to my HMO's traditional doc to ob/gyn annual checks and mostly use my HMO for prescriptions from my naturopathic docs.
My first naturopath knew allergies and celiac disease, but he didn't really consider the whole picture when I began getting one gastrointestinal infection after another. He just tested me with stool tests, which diagnosed the gut bugs, and prescribed treatments. He was too busy promoting his business or just too limited in his knowledge to consider why I kept getting those infections. Even my new naturopath who considered why I got all those infections, has made some mistakes, like starting me on 3.0 mg LDN while I'm taking thyroid supplements and not considering the affect of LDN on thyroid function. So even with knowledgable docs, I learned to question and research everything they suggest. They have many patients and can't always remember all the details of my health history, like my 7 food allergy and celiac dietary restrictions, etc.
Looking forward to hearing your story, esp. how you developed leukopenia ...
I never tried LDN, instead I stick to natural supplements for my hypothyroidism. Thanks for sharing your ideas.
Hi Anita:
I'm not taking LDN for Hashimoto's hypothyroidism. I'm taking the LDN to boost my immunity. I have had low white blood cells (neutropenia) since last June. That made me vulnerable to respiratory infections. So I got one cold after another. After 8 weeks of LDN my neutropenia improved (higher neutrophil level). I'll continue LDN for another month or so for a total of 4-5 months.
The best thing I can do for Hashi's is treat the cause of the autoimmune (antibody) thyroid damage. Hashi's is highly correlated with celiac disease and gluten intolerance (which causes damage from gluten antibodies). So abstaining from gluten prevents the ongoing damage that many Hashi's patients experience. I actually was diagnosed with celiac disease and began to abstain from gluten in 2004. I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism in 2010. At that time my Hashi's antibodies were within the normal range, but my TSH was high, T4 was low normal and T3 was very low.
My husband takes a natural thyroid supplement (Armour from dessicated pig thyroid), because he needs T4 more than he needs T3. However, I'm just the opposite. I don't convert T4 to T3 very easily. So I just take a synthetic T3 (generic liothyronine). Taking the LDN reduced my need for thyroid supplement. So I no longer take any T4, because I really need the T3.
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